[FPSPACE] Mars volunteers

David Portree dsfportree at hotmail.com
Sat Oct 1 13:42:03 EDT 2016


Keith:


This does seem to be a conundrum - people say they want to colonize Mars, and some Mars One victims have even made life-changing decisions based on the belief that it is legitimate (I read of one poor fellow who broke off his engagement to be married).


I chalk up belief in space scams to ignorance.  We have seen many of these since about 2000, though they cropped up prior to that. Typically, the scammers claim to be brave rogues doing what NASA can't or won't do. Some actually do something on a small scale while touting big impossible schemes, or make real preparations for a space mission that seems never to get close to happening. Others do things that no one needs done. Some don't do anything except put out press releases and videos.


This occurred in government during SEI - Livermore Nat Lab pitched an unrealistic alternative SEI architecture that fooled Dan Quayle and exacerbated his already hostile relationship with NASA.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: FPSPACE <fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org> on behalf of Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:07 AM
To: fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Mars volunteers

    So far we've been debating, rationally enough by analogy to polar living,  the issue of how many people will volunteer to spend the rest of their life on Mars.

   For example, none of the millionaires who can afford to buy a polar prefab with insulation & triple glazing, buy a year's supply of frozen food & diesel for central heating, have shown any inclination to spend even one year living in the Antarctica, including 3 months of total darkness. Even in our epoch which has the internet & DVDs for combating cabin fever.

   On the other hand, we also need to reflect on the Dutch foundation Mars One, who indeed has found hundreds of volunteers which it had to whittle down. These volunteers have not yet been put through the test of being locked up in a caravan for even one year to see how they cooperate & psychologically survive each other's company in a confined space. & their selection so far seems to have been mostly on being telegenic personalities rather than teamwork under stressful conditions.

   The numerous Antarctic bases do not have anyone serving longer than 12 - 18 months, even the largest with the company of hundreds of team members, which are the US bases at the South Pole, & at McMurdo Sound. So this indicates to me a optimal term of duty on Mars bases; not more than 26 months. Of course, if our famous motivational & marketing speaker Elon Musk can find anyone other than taxpayers to grow a Mars base from scores to thousands, then the whole human environment changes!

   But no current members of FPSPACE will be around to celebrate these happy milestones!

- Keith.

>>> David Portree 10/01/16 9:08 AM >>>

Keith:


The difficulty with that is that we still need to move rockets to the pad, prepare them for launch, etc. If the pads are routinely flooded, at least some other facilities will be, too.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 1:05 PM
To: grujica.ivanovich at ergon.com.au; thomsona at flash.net; dsfportree at hotmail.com; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..

  It is a thought that NASA budgets should over the next decade incrementally factor in building a dyke around launch pads, one per year.

>>> David Portree 09/30/16 7:03 PM >>>

Grujica:


I think you are, as I am, an incrementalist when it comes to spaceflight. We have to creep up on the problem, not assume revolutionary changes. For most people, Musk's announcements are just the latest circus act, not anything serious. For settlement off-Earth to work, it will have to seem like something serious to more people, and building that perception will take time. I suspect that Musk's announcements, which seem like sci-fi, retard the process of mass acceptance of space settlement, in fact.


You touch on an issue that I think is significant - is it reasonable to assume that a colony on another world is our best response to threats to people on Earth? Obviously the answer at present and for the foreseeable future is "No!" In fact, I would expect that postponing dealing with issues like human-induced global warming in reasonable ways would ipso facto postpone our progress in spaceflight. The longer we require to confront climate change, the more likely it will become that we will lack resources to spare for spaceflight.


I like to remind people that the main US spaceport is only a few feet above sea level. If current projections of sea-level rise are accurate (and so far they seem too conservative), then we should see recurrent flooding and damage at Kennedy Space Center within the next couple of decades and permanent submersion of many facilities before century's end. Along the way, we should see more violent storms.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: IVANOVICH Grujica (SW) <grujica.ivanovich at ergon.com.au>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 12:08 AM
To: David Portree; Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: RE: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..


Thanks David,



Agree.

Colonisation of Mars is a question for humankind, not for individuals, it has crucial importance for evolution of Homo Sapiens.

I do not think that global catastrophe of our planet, mentioned by Musk is a real driver. This may also happen to Mars once when human colony is established and may destroy “Martian” civilisation.

I think that our civilisation should pursue technologies to protect Earth from the celestial bodies.

Also, to mentally reach the point of global safety, accountability and responsibility to protect and support sustainable co-existence of humans and flora and fauna in the future.



Regarding Mars, I think in the next centuries that hybrid scenario, combining periodic human expeditions supported by small permanent colonies of robots and automats will benefit science and universal knowledge.

Over the centuries, robots could also perform Mars’ terra-transformation experiments.

If that process is successful, in the next phase, once when humans are sure they can survive interplanetary flights and to live and sustain in 1/3 gravity, then I think we can start stage colonisation of Mars.



Regards,

Grujica



From: FPSPACE [mailto:fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of David Portree
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 1:48 PM
To: Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..



We don't even know whether conception can occur in 1/3 gee, let alone whether a fetus can be carried to term. We don't know the effects of a 1/3-gee pregnancy on the health of the mother. We don't know if babies can be delivered normally in 1/3 gee. We don't know if a baby can grow into a healthy adult in 1/3 gee.



Gravity is so pervasive - it seems unlikely to me that conception, pregnancy, birth, and subsequent development would not be profoundly impacted in ways we cannot now predict.



David S. F. Portree

Email:



dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>



Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________

From: FPSPACE <fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org>> on behalf of Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za<mailto:kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 2:52 PM
To: thomsona at flash.net<mailto:thomsona at flash.net>; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org>; drwoods at stny.rr.com<mailto:drwoods at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..



  There's one ethics question looming on the horizon.

    Let's take Musk's 100 000 emigrants every 26th month. Once babies start being born & raised in 1/3 gravity, their cardiovascular system could no more every return to earth than we could live in 3G. The closest a Mars-born person could every get to earth would be as a LEO tourist. So for the Martian born & raised, you are permanently on Mars or its two Moons.

- Keith

>>> Allen Thomson <thomsona at flash.net<mailto:thomsona at flash.net>> 09/29/16 10:40 PM >>>

> The closest was a few couples living on South Georgia island a century ago at the height of the whaling boom, & I think that was for a decade at most.



http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/mesmerizing-photos-of-abandoned-structures-in-the-high-arctic





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