[FPSPACE] Mars volunteers

Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za
Sat Oct 1 06:07:38 EDT 2016


So far we've been debating, rationally enough by analogy to polar
living,  the issue of how many people will volunteer to spend the rest
of their life on Mars.

   For example, none of the millionaires who can afford to buy a polar
prefab with insulation & triple glazing, buy a year's supply of frozen
food & diesel for central heating, have shown any inclination to spend
even one year living in the Antarctica, including 3 months of total
darkness. Even in our epoch which has the internet & DVDs for combating
cabin fever.

   On the other hand, we also need to reflect on the Dutch foundation
Mars One, who indeed has found hundreds of volunteers which it had to
whittle down. These volunteers have not yet been put through the test of
being locked up in a caravan for even one year to see how they cooperate
& psychologically survive each other's company in a confined space. &
their selection so far seems to have been mostly on being telegenic
personalities rather than teamwork under stressful conditions.

   The numerous Antarctic bases do not have anyone serving longer than
12 - 18 months, even the largest with the company of hundreds of team
members, which are the US bases at the South Pole, & at McMurdo Sound.
So this indicates to me a optimal term of duty on Mars bases; not more
than 26 months. Of course, if our famous motivational & marketing
speaker Elon Musk can find anyone other than taxpayers to grow a Mars
base from scores to thousands, then the whole human environment changes!

   But no current members of FPSPACE will be around to celebrate these
happy milestones!

- Keith.

>>> David Portree  10/01/16 9:08 AM >>>
Keith:


The difficulty with that is that we still need to move rockets to the
pad, prepare them for launch, etc. If the pads are routinely flooded, at
least some other facilities will be, too.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/








From: Keith Gottschalk 
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 1:05 PM
To: grujica.ivanovich at ergon.com.au; thomsona at flash.net;
dsfportree at hotmail.com; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org;
drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come.. 

  It is a thought that NASA budgets should over the next decade
incrementally factor in building a dyke around launch pads, one per
year.

>>> David Portree 09/30/16 7:03 PM >>>
Grujica:


I think you are, as I am, an incrementalist when it comes to
spaceflight. We have to creep up on the problem, not assume
revolutionary changes. For most people, Musk's announcements are just
the latest circus act, not anything serious. For settlement off-Earth to
work, it will have to seem like something serious to more people, and
building that perception will take time. I suspect that Musk's
announcements, which seem like sci-fi, retard the process of mass
acceptance of space settlement, in fact.


You touch on an issue that I think is significant - is it reasonable to
assume that a colony on another world is our best response to threats to
people on Earth? Obviously the answer at present and for the foreseeable
future is "No!" In fact, I would expect that postponing dealing with
issues like human-induced global warming in reasonable ways would ipso
facto postpone our progress in spaceflight. The longer we require to
confront climate change, the more likely it will become that we will
lack resources to spare for spaceflight. 


I like to remind people that the main US spaceport is only a few feet
above sea level. If current projections of sea-level rise are accurate
(and so far they seem too conservative), then we should see recurrent
flooding and damage at Kennedy Space Center within the next couple of
decades and permanent submersion of many facilities before century's
end. Along the way, we should see more violent storms. 


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:
dsfportree at hotmail.com

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/








From: IVANOVICH Grujica (SW) 
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 12:08 AM
To: David Portree; Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net;
fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: RE: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come.. 

Thanks David,
 
Agree.
Colonisation of Mars is a question for humankind, not for individuals,
it has crucial importance for evolution of Homo Sapiens.
I do not think that global catastrophe of our planet, mentioned by Musk
is a real driver. This may also happen to Mars once when human colony is
established and may destroy “Martian” civilisation.    
I think that our civilisation should pursue technologies to protect
Earth from the celestial bodies.
Also, to mentally reach the point of global safety, accountability and
responsibility to protect and support sustainable co-existence of humans
and flora and fauna in the future.    
 
Regarding Mars, I think in the next centuries that hybrid scenario,
combining periodic human expeditions supported by small permanent
colonies of robots and automats will benefit science and universal
knowledge.
Over the centuries, robots could also perform Mars’ terra-transformation
experiments.
If that process is successful, in the next phase, once when humans are
sure they can survive interplanetary flights and to live and sustain in
1/3 gravity, then I think we can start stage colonisation of Mars.      

  
Regards,
Grujica
 
From: FPSPACE [mailto:fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org]On
Behalf Of David Portree
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 1:48 PM
To: Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net;
fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..


 
We don't even know whether conception can occur in 1/3 gee, let alone
whether a fetus can be carried to term. We don't know the effects of a
1/3-gee pregnancy on the health of the mother. We don't know if babies
can be delivered normally in 1/3 gee. We don't know if a baby can grow
into a healthy adult in 1/3 gee. 
 
Gravity is so pervasive - it seems unlikely to me that conception,
pregnancy, birth, and subsequent development would not be profoundly
impacted in ways we cannot now predict.
 
David S. F. Portree

Email: 
 
dsfportree at hotmail.com

 
Blogs:


http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/






 

From: FPSPACE <fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org> on behalf of
Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 2:52 PM
To: thomsona at flash.net; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org;
drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..
 


  There's one ethics question looming on the horizon.

    Let's take Musk's 100 000 emigrants every 26th month. Once babies
start being born & raised in 1/3 gravity, their cardiovascular system
could no more every return to earth than we could live in 3G. The
closest a Mars-born person could every get to earth would be as a LEO
tourist. So for the Martian born & raised, you are permanently on Mars
or its two Moons.

- Keith

>>> Allen Thomson <thomsona at flash.net> 09/29/16 10:40 PM >>>

> The closest was a few couples living on South Georgia island a century
ago at the height of the whaling boom, & I think that was for a decade
at most.



http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/mesmerizing-photos-of-abandoned-structures-in-the-high-arctic



 
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