[FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..

David Portree dsfportree at hotmail.com
Sat Oct 1 03:07:47 EDT 2016


Keith:


The difficulty with that is that we still need to move rockets to the pad, prepare them for launch, etc. If the pads are routinely flooded, at least some other facilities will be, too.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 1:05 PM
To: grujica.ivanovich at ergon.com.au; thomsona at flash.net; dsfportree at hotmail.com; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..

  It is a thought that NASA budgets should over the next decade incrementally factor in building a dyke around launch pads, one per year.

>>> David Portree 09/30/16 7:03 PM >>>

Grujica:


I think you are, as I am, an incrementalist when it comes to spaceflight. We have to creep up on the problem, not assume revolutionary changes. For most people, Musk's announcements are just the latest circus act, not anything serious. For settlement off-Earth to work, it will have to seem like something serious to more people, and building that perception will take time. I suspect that Musk's announcements, which seem like sci-fi, retard the process of mass acceptance of space settlement, in fact.


You touch on an issue that I think is significant - is it reasonable to assume that a colony on another world is our best response to threats to people on Earth? Obviously the answer at present and for the foreseeable future is "No!" In fact, I would expect that postponing dealing with issues like human-induced global warming in reasonable ways would ipso facto postpone our progress in spaceflight. The longer we require to confront climate change, the more likely it will become that we will lack resources to spare for spaceflight.


I like to remind people that the main US spaceport is only a few feet above sea level. If current projections of sea-level rise are accurate (and so far they seem too conservative), then we should see recurrent flooding and damage at Kennedy Space Center within the next couple of decades and permanent submersion of many facilities before century's end. Along the way, we should see more violent storms.


dsfp


David S. F. Portree

Email:

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>

Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: IVANOVICH Grujica (SW) <grujica.ivanovich at ergon.com.au>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 12:08 AM
To: David Portree; Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: RE: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..


Thanks David,



Agree.

Colonisation of Mars is a question for humankind, not for individuals, it has crucial importance for evolution of Homo Sapiens.

I do not think that global catastrophe of our planet, mentioned by Musk is a real driver. This may also happen to Mars once when human colony is established and may destroy “Martian” civilisation.

I think that our civilisation should pursue technologies to protect Earth from the celestial bodies.

Also, to mentally reach the point of global safety, accountability and responsibility to protect and support sustainable co-existence of humans and flora and fauna in the future.



Regarding Mars, I think in the next centuries that hybrid scenario, combining periodic human expeditions supported by small permanent colonies of robots and automats will benefit science and universal knowledge.

Over the centuries, robots could also perform Mars’ terra-transformation experiments.

If that process is successful, in the next phase, once when humans are sure they can survive interplanetary flights and to live and sustain in 1/3 gravity, then I think we can start stage colonisation of Mars.



Regards,

Grujica



From: FPSPACE [mailto:fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of David Portree
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 1:48 PM
To: Keith Gottschalk; thomsona at flash.net; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org; drwoods at stny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..



We don't even know whether conception can occur in 1/3 gee, let alone whether a fetus can be carried to term. We don't know the effects of a 1/3-gee pregnancy on the health of the mother. We don't know if babies can be delivered normally in 1/3 gee. We don't know if a baby can grow into a healthy adult in 1/3 gee.



Gravity is so pervasive - it seems unlikely to me that conception, pregnancy, birth, and subsequent development would not be profoundly impacted in ways we cannot now predict.



David S. F. Portree

Email:



dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>



Blogs:

http://dsfpll.blogspot.com/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/




________________________________

From: FPSPACE <fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace-bounces at mail.friends-partners.org>> on behalf of Keith Gottschalk <kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za<mailto:kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za>>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 2:52 PM
To: thomsona at flash.net<mailto:thomsona at flash.net>; fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at lists.friends-partners.org>; drwoods at stny.rr.com<mailto:drwoods at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Mars, here we come..



  There's one ethics question looming on the horizon.

    Let's take Musk's 100 000 emigrants every 26th month. Once babies start being born & raised in 1/3 gravity, their cardiovascular system could no more every return to earth than we could live in 3G. The closest a Mars-born person could every get to earth would be as a LEO tourist. So for the Martian born & raised, you are permanently on Mars or its two Moons.

- Keith

>>> Allen Thomson <thomsona at flash.net<mailto:thomsona at flash.net>> 09/29/16 10:40 PM >>>

> The closest was a few couples living on South Georgia island a century ago at the height of the whaling boom, & I think that was for a decade at most.



http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/mesmerizing-photos-of-abandoned-structures-in-the-high-arctic





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