[FPSPACE] A few choice comment on intelligence research and the upcoming "5L" launch attempt understanding.
cpvick at globalsecurity.org
Fri Jul 1 19:13:13 EDT 2016
I frankly have long since given up on the FOIA process for this life time with only a few years left for me.
I will say the FOIA process worked well for me in dealing with NSA but that took 7-12 years rendering the MDR process with them laughable.
CIA FOIA documentation declassification has long since ceased as Putin has assumed his rule in Russia with none done for many years until recently say except for the Kennedy, Johnson PICL’s and PDB’s.
I rely on the MDR process but have found that a plateau has been reached over the last year of no further in-depth releases until three years after the following
1. CIA USAF declassification years 2017-2025. (50Years for 1967-1975.)
2017 = 1967, 2018 = 1968, 2019 = 1969, 2020 = 1970, 2021 = 1971, 2022 = 1972, 2023 = 1973, 2024=1974.
2. NSA declassification dates 2042-2050? (75 years) for 1967-1975
Do not hold your breath and never ever expect the US Intelligence Community to declassify the real Lunar & Space race history as that will not happen for at least 100 years or come judgement day.
The intelligence community even when faced with overwhelming open source information still will not acknowledge events that any sane person would recognize.
ISCAP is in great need of considerable reform making it more powerful but that is not going to happen
Under NARA rules the Nixon library can withhold already declassified document as long as they wish for some future opening
I have had a large pile of Nixon document declassified since Dec. 3, 2015 on the key lunar race era events but to date only a fraction are declassified and available on line and I have implicated from then that I will not see them for a year after declassification if then.
I had already assumed I will probably have to wait, if not forever, until the next opening if it ever gets done at all; “late” this year adding another year or two of irresponsible grotesque delays that amounts to abuse.
In fact the director of ISCAP promised that the release on the May 26th would give me all of my documents that are declassified since 12-3-2015. The Nixon Library has made him the head of ISCAP the supreme court of declassification a liar.
I am exceptionally ….. after what amounts to 10-11 years and even after it is declassified I cannot get the stuff in a timely manner. Thanks a whole lot USA. No excuses excepted.
Throughout all the NARA libraries and ISCAP experience that I have interfaced with its personnel in Washington, D.C., Adelphi Maryland, Truman Library, Eisenhower Library and LBJ library have been the most pleasant experience that one could ask to receive.
However consistently the Nixon library from the Adelphi, Maryland facility when it existed to the present Nixon library in Yorba Linda, CA has been the most negative experience I have ever endured in my 69 years pushing 70 years life on this planet. No more enough of them.
Never mind I give up as I see this as a game that is no longer worth wasting my limited life on.
In any case most of the stuff I desire is covered in declassified NSA SIGINT Summaries & FOIA documentation done for me and FTD USAF. FOIA declassified documents.
On the horizon the PDB for Nixon and Ford Presidency are due to be released by CIA late this year as best as I can ascertain.
Also the DNI office says the KH-8 imagery is in the offing for declassification going on for two years now but I will believe that If I live that long as I am not waiting or dreaming on that balderdash.
I thankfully have the critical lunar race KH-9 imagery data available identified (God Know if I will ever get to see that imagery) to go make imagery copies of the pictures desired but that may never get done…….
My life time effort to do my dissertation since 1978 has died over the last three years and three months. I just thought I would let you out there to know the reality you face….. It is what you do not know that bites you because you were not there to know.
A few choice comment below from my so called dissertation effort:
Comment CPV: - Respectfully CIA at the time espoused the idea of two “J-vehicles” required to carry out the lunar mission and this is probably a short coming in the Defense Secretaries recollection and my mistake also but the Soyuz issue remains unresolved due to data losses. Though Dr. Laird said we only saw one launch. The idea of two “J” vehicles on the two close by launch pads was rightfully considered “crazy” by the late Dr. Charles S. Sheldon II as he had told Charles P. Vick in his Library of Congress office. The Soviet never operated that way and nor did the US for obvious potential launch damage reasons. Dr. Sheldon said, “he would not want to be the responsible person to sign off on the (“J”-vehicle) launch site design”. CIA also continued to push a thrust level at liftoff of 12 to 14 million pounds that was not technically possible as they were repeatedly told by other Military Intelligence Community organizations.
The Defense Secretary was provided this following information from CIA:
“USSR: RECENT SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPHY OF TYURATAM MT THE SOVIETS LARGEST SPACE BOOSTER EXPLODES DURING ITS FIRST LAUNCH, RESULTING-IN EXTENSIVE DAMAGE TO THE LAUNCH PAD
THE EXPLOSION PROBABLY OCCURRED ON 3 JULY. ON THAT DAY INTERCEPTED COMMUNICATIONS (AMONG RANGE or SSESS or SSPSS SHIPS AND THE TTMTC RANGE HEAD) DISCLOSED THAT A BOOSTER HAD FAILED EARLY IN FLIGHT OR ON THE PAD. (MASINT-INCLUDING, ACOUSTIC, SEISMIC) STRONGLY SUGGESTED THAT THERE HAD BEEN AN EXPLOSION OF A VEHICLE (LARGER THAN THE PROTON) THE BIGGEST BOOSTER PREVIOUSLY USED BY THE SOVIETS.
IN ADDITION.TO THE DAMAGE TO THE LAUNCH PAD. THE SURROUNDING AREA IS DARKENED, INDICIDATING FIRE DAMAGE. THE SERVICE TOWER WHICH MOVES AWAY FROM THE BOOSTER BEFORE LAUNCH APPEARS .INTACT, BUT ONE OF; TWO 600 FO0T TOWERS CLOSER TO THE RAD IS MISSING AND THE OTHER APPARENTLY WAS DAMAGED IN THE EXPLOSION.
THE RECENTLY COMPLETED SECOND LAUNCH. PAD AT COMPLE'X.- J , WHICH IS SOME 1,600 FEET F.RO.M THE DAMAGED PAD, LOOKS UNHARMED, AS DO THE LAUNCH CONTROL FACILITIES. COMPLEX .J MAY, THEREFORE, STILL BE CAPABLE OF SUPPORTING A LAUNCH FROM THE-SECOND PAD.
THE NEW BOOSTER IS THE SOVIET 'COUNTERPART TO THE US SATURN 5, AND WILL BE USED IN THE 'SOVIET MANNED LUNAR; LANDING .PROGRAM.. IT DEVELOPS BETWEEN 12 AND 14 MILLION POUNDS'OF THRUST AT LIFT-OFF COMPARED WITH 7.5 MILLION POUNDS FOR THE SATURN 5. DESPITE THE DIFFERENCE IN INITIAL THRUST, THE BOOSTERS HAVE ABOUT THE SAME PAYLOAD CAPABILITY FOR EARTH ORBIT. THE SATURN 5 CAN OUT PERFORM THE SOVIET BOOSTER FOR LUNAR-BOUND PAYLOADS BECAUSE THE US BOOSTER USES HIGH-ENERGY PROPELLANTS IN ITS UPPER STAGES,.
IN ADDITION TO CORRECTING THE PROBLEMS WITH THE BOOSTER, THE SOVIETS- PROBABLY WILL NEED AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR T0: REPAIR -THE LAUNCH PAD. SEVERAL MISSIONS—SUCH AS ORBITING THE MOON WITH A MANNED SPACECRAFT, RETURNING AN UNMANNED LUNAR SAMPLER, OR ORBITING A. LARCE EARTH SPACE STATION—COULD BE ACCOM-PUSHED FROM THE SECOND PAD. A MANNED LUNAR LANDING, HOWEVER, WOULD REQUIRE BOTH PADS. SUCH A MISSION APPEARS UNLIKELY BEFORE LATE 1972”
From: declassified CIA: CIB 15 August 1969 pp.1-3
Comment CPV: In reality after study of the available preponderance of declassified U.S. and Russian Federation information there is only the conclusion possible to draw on the 5L mission hardware is that which follows. 5L’s earth orbit insertion mass at 75 metric tons was greater than the 3L payload as dictated by the State plan. Since the N1 booster was years behind in its development from the State decreed schedule no manned flight was possible or contemplated as the State Planning schedule makes clear. I am left with the conclusion that the actual payload flown on 5L mission as being the Bloc-G, Bloc-D, LK mass Instrumentation module and L-3S/L-1S/7K-L1S hybrid spacecraft payload utilizing an LOK computer in the Zond-L1 descent module even though another option was possible IE: an LOK Zond but would have taken longer to prepare outside the State demanded requirement as the Acad. V. P. Mishin diaries reveal. The 5L mission fell far short of the Soviet minister’s goal intent. In front of the Zond spacecraft was the LOK, DoK unit presumable intended to be jettisoned before TLI. This design precluded crewing of the spacecraft before launch or in earth orbit. Not until after the N1-L3, 7L mission if the entire flight tests series had been reasonably successful would a manned lunar orbit mission have been possible as planned by the State. Again the ministers failed in their efforts as 5L blew up in their faces as did 6L and 7L. All of this was supposed to have taken place years earlier to forge ahead of the United States but that did not happen along with the wasteful Proton Zond program late Soyuz program reducing the two of three programs down to a wasted futile geopolitical game failure. C.P.Vick
Charles P. Vick
Senior Technical & Space Policy Intelligence Analyst
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